Courtney: [00:00:00] When streaming first came out and when any new technology comes out, the AMPTP uses it as an excuse to be like, Hey, we don't know if this is going to be successful, please just give us a break. We don't know. We don't know if we're going to make any money off of it. And it's like, okay, well, that's why we're asking for revenue share of the 2% cause it's like, well, if you're not successful, we're not successful.

If you are successful, we're successful, like at a very small percentage. It's not like we're asking for a fixed amount of money. We're asking for a percentage of your revenue. So if your revenue It goes bonkers and it's amazing. Everybody wins. The whole artist with Courtney Rue. Hello, welcome to the first episode back of the whole artist.

We do have a whole other first episode recorded, but because of the strike, we wanted to record a new first episode. So this is sort of like a soft launch to the season.

[00:01:00] Um, today we have a special guest host. Bex Marsh. I actually have an episode with her as my guest last season that you can check out, Love in Abundance featuring Bex Marsh.

She is a very good friend of mine. She's a member of SAG AFTRA, an actress in LA and writer, comedian. Bex is going to ask questions as a, just a rank and file member. To me, someone who's on the national board, the local board, and has been super involved in SAG AFTRA and is also on the negotiating committee for this TV theatrical contract and, um, and strike captain.

So Bex is here to ask me questions that maybe you also have on your mind. So, um, hi Bex. Thanks for, for being here.

Bex: Hi Cour thanks for having me. Um, and I'm so excited to do this with you, because like many other SAG members, or just SAG Curious actors and creatives, like, this is a very concerning time in the industry, [00:02:00] and as someone who gets the emails, all that stuff, it's a lot to keep up with, as well as like a daily job and things, so I kind of wanted to hit, uh, I kind of wanted to hit through some things with you, um, to just clarify exactly what's going on from a boots on the ground perspective.

That you are, you're so in it, and, and thank you for your service, Court, like. Doing all this work that, you know, this is why we elect you to stand up for us. So, my first question, just to get an overview here, is what is the AMPTP? 

Courtney: Short answer is they are the studios. They are a group of studios. It's the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers, but to say producers is kind of, because there are producers who are in the Producers Guild of America and they have their own union and they're also negotiating with the AMPTP.

So it's kind of like, I just like to call them the studios. So they're like, you know, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, HBO, [00:03:00] um, Universal, Paramount, Fox, Disney. Did I say Warner Brothers? You know, it's all, all these studios are able to come together to negotiate against each of the unions. Um, so they're very powerful and they have a lot of money.

I mean, they, uh, the AMPTP pays their chief negotiator 3 million to negotiate against us. One lawyer on the team. of multiple lawyers. So it's, um, it's a sad state of the world. I kind of think like, you know, when people pay lobbyists so much money so that they don't have to pay taxes, I'm like, why don't you just pay the taxes instead of paying lawyers and lobbyists?

Come on, do the right thing.

Bex: Totally. Wow. Just to paying that much money just to get out of paying that much money. 

Courtney: Paying actors. The people who create your, who make your content, like you can't have the You can't make [00:04:00] money without actors and writers and, uh, you know, all the people, all the creative people, the crew, IATSE, like, you don't have something to sell without us.

And you pay more money to a lawyer than we're asking for. 

Bex: infuriating across the board. When you break it down like that, it's like, wow, this is really like evil core times five working against us. 

Courtney: Disney villain 

Bex: villain. For sure. 

Courtney: Absolutely. And so this is who we're striking against in a sense. Yes. Okay, great.

We are striking against the, well, we're, we're striking the. TV theatrical contract, but we're really striking against the AMPTP because they're the ones who won't give us a fair deal. So if someone is willing to sign on to one of our interim agreements, um, you know, very independent producers who have nothing to do with the AMPTP, If they're willing to sign [00:05:00] on to the, the deal that we brought to the AMPTP and, and they said no, um, these independent producers, hundreds of them have been signing on to this interim agreement saying, yeah, we'll do it.

And it's like, if the, if the independent producers who like make no money can say yes to our deal, the AMPTP can as well. So,

Bex: so what you're saying is it's greed. 

Courtney: Yeah. Oh, it's corporate greed. Through and through. 

Bex: It's a hundred percent just greed. Yeah. And them not wanting to pay out.

Courtney: I mean, Bob Iger is like, Oh, this, they're not being realistic while he's on his like yacht, you know, sailing, uh, reading a book.

And there's a picture of him reading a book on his yacht and he's, we're like, yeah, um, we just want to pay our rent and feed ourselves and our families. And you want to go off into the sunset on a yacht and we're not realistic. Please. 

Bex: I mean, it's so true. As soon as the W. G. A. Went on strike and my [00:06:00] partner is in the W.G. A. And so I've been in this on two sides here witnessing it. And actually today, the day that we're recording this is the 100th day. The W. G. A. Has been on strike. The Writers Guild of America. So SAG hasn't hit that yet. But those who have been in support of them know that this has been a long process.

Um, but as soon as they went on strike, every executive That I followed on Instagram. Immediately went on vacation and what does that tell you about what they thought about this strike and how soon it was going to end? They immediately knew that this was like, okay, summer vacation for everybody because what a dichotomy, what a juxtaposition.

Courtney: For us, we're afraid we're going to be out of a job and lose our homes and you know, not, not have any work, not have any money coming through and they're like going on a trip.

Bex: Yeah, it's just a. Vacation for me. I got my check, you know, my health insurance is solid, but the rest of us are [00:07:00] like, Oh, cool. We're not gonna have health insurance this year because there's no way we can meet that, uh, by the end of this year because of how long the strike has taken.

So. You know, WGA has striked more recently, right, in the last, you know, 10 or 20 years. When was the last time SAG striked? 

Courtney: I think it was 1980. Um. Wow. Well, the, hold on, let me look this up because the WGA and SAG AFTRA went on strike together and I'm forgetting what year that was, but that was, I think, the year that we got Residuals, because movies were being played on TV, we got residuals and we got, I think, pension and health with that strike and that was the one that we went on together.

But I know the last time SAG AFTRA went on strike was 1980. Wow. Okay. So the last time both SAG and WGA went on strike was in 1960. SAG came to an agreement in six weeks while the [00:08:00] WGA took 148 days. So it could be something similar or longer this time around, but yeah, then SAG went on strike in 1980 and that was the last time we went on strike.

Bex: Wow. So it's been over 40 years. 

Courtney: Yeah, it's not like we're doing this every single time we have a contract negotiation. But, you know, streaming's been around for like 10 years. And when streaming first came out, and when any new technology comes out, the AMPTP, Uses it as an excuse to be like, Hey, we don't know if this is going to be successful.

Please just give us a break. We don't know. We don't know if we're going to make any money off of it. And it's like, okay, well, that's why we're doing, that's why we're asking for revenue share of the 2% cause it's like, well, if you're not successful, we're not successful. If you are successful, we're successful.

Like at a very small percentage, it's not like we're asking for a fixed amount of money. We're asking for a percentage [00:09:00] of your revenue. So. If your revenue goes bonkers and is amazing, everybody wins. It doesn't seem that hard. But yet, it seems they're making it so complicated. They're making it very complicated and they're on the wrong side of history.

I mean, they're just so tone deaf. It's so tone deaf. 

Bex: Yes, and it's so tone deaf that even a Deadline article published recently interviewed, uh, an executive on the AMPTP who, who said, quote, The endgame is to allow things to drag on until union members start losing their apartments and losing their houses, end quote.

This person is anonymous, but they are quoted by Deadline, and it's been a huge... Just a huge, like, resounding echo throughout the picket line of, like, that is what they're hoping for, literally. 

Courtney: Right. It is, you could feel, um, I was on the Zoom negotiating room and there were some people in person [00:10:00] and there were some people on Zoom.

And the, just the lack of respect, I mean, just the lack of respect that we get when they're asking for an audition, when they're asking for so many pages that it's ridiculous, or they're asking for you to do something ridiculous. Like, why don't you do it in your car while you're driving? Or, or, uh, go in a pool because there's a pool or cook a meal in the kitchen.

Like, you know, there, there, there's just like. It's also tone deaf and there's just no respect. So on the Zoom, we would like say what we wanted for our proposal. I would see people like on the AMPTP rolling their eyes at what we were asking. And it was like stuff that we were asking that had no cost, no money to it.

That was just like, Hey, can we please have some restrictions around self tape? And they're like, Oh God, these f’n actors. What's so wrong with doing 12 pages for a first audition? How hard can it be? And it's like, I want to be like, why don't you do the 12 pages and see how long it takes [00:11:00] you to prepare and to get your ring light on and to get a reader and have, you know, have one of your family members spend hours of their day for free as well as us doing it for free.

Like we're the only ones who don't get paid to audition. Everybody else is on salary. Casting has a salary. Um, producers have a salary. Everybody has a salary except actors, we're doing this free labor and we were like fine with it when it actually resulted in a living wage. But when you book a job and you win that lottery and you don't even get a living wage with streaming residuals?

Like, we can't do that, we can't survive, you're squeezing us out of the industry that we love. Totally. 

Bex: And to like, even dissect that even more as an actor who... Is out here in LA is partaking and well, there really isn't like a, a pilot season anymore. It's kind of like pilot season year round. So when we get a [00:12:00] pilot audition, it's usually 12 to 13 pages.

And they usually come around the same time, like studios. So there was one year, two, three years ago, they had maybe like three pilot auditions in the same week. Each of them were 

Courtney: 13 pages. You can't do that when you have another job. Even if you don't have to create.

Bex: Yes. These characters, but also I'm just like, holy shit, they're finally writing a character for me.

Right. To be that. 

Courtney: So you're like excited.

Bex: I'm excited. But then I feel like I'm given this opportunity with my hands tied behind my back because now I'm like, wait, I, I don't, I don't have enough hours in the day to create a full character. And you know what else? We all know this is true. Casting is going to know within the first five seconds.

Of my self tape, if they think I am right for the role or not, then why make me do 13 pages? Yes. And you never make it that far. Just call me back. You're going to call me back anyway. Have me do more pages then. 

Courtney: They want to get rid of the callback. They want to get [00:13:00] rid of the callback, but it's like, that is disrespectful to every single actor who's auditioning that

you're never even going to watch their full tape. Free labor that is. 

Bex: And the burden tends to be mostly on diverse minority actors. So there is a thing within casting that they have to give everyone equal opportunity, even if they have no intent of actually casting someone who was black, brown, or trans or any, but they still have to put out the casting notice.

Meaning they're still going to reach out to their black, brown, whatever minority group that they have to audition for a role that they know that the studio wants a white actor. So not only that, we are getting called in to do twice the amount of work for free with no actual intent of ever hiring us.

It's exhausting. I've heard this, uh, 

Courtney: I never even thought of that, Bex, so thank you for bringing that up. 

Bex: In the minority community, it is a thing now where it's like we have, we have to be so grateful and we're told we're so [00:14:00] grateful to even read for these roles, but we don't even know if our tapes are shown, but yet we are told to have in good faith to keep the relationship good between casting that we have to give more of our time and energy.

And it's just heinous at this point. So from that aspect, I've had many friends just be like, we've just been like, no, I'm not doing that. And risk burning bridges between casting because casting has to fill a quota of like, well, I have to say, I reached out to five Black actors, five Asian actors and have that proof, even though they may never review the tapes.

That is so frustrating. Oh, and I want to go back to the thing about like, we're going to wait it out until they lose their homes. And like, it is true. That is a scary thing, right? We are afraid that we will lose our homes, but also actors and writers are used to not making any money. And we are used to having other jobs that pay our bills.

So it's like. We can be, uh, on this picket line for a very long time [00:15:00] with our other jobs that we already had because you're not paying enough money. You're not paying those residuals that you used to pay with network TV, uh, you know, now that everything's moving over to streaming, like people have other job, actors and writers have other jobs.

So if you're going to be waiting, you're probably going to be waiting a long time. And I say that knowing that there is a definite like reality to that statement as well and a fear. Yes, it's so true. And what's actually happening right now is that they're shrinking. In the acting industry and sag, they're shrinking the middle class.

Like it's most actors are usually just used to what you're saying, like just getting into SAG, just doing that. They're still not making a living off of this, but it's the people who were like the day players, the weekly. Like you court who are have the weekly jobs. That's the middle class. That's actually making a living off of this.

It's like non existent. So you're either going to be, you have to be a list celebrity, or you're just going to be [00:16:00] scraping by now. There's no more middle class of people actually able to, to meet their insurance. You know, needs for SAG, or pension plans, or things like that. There's just not enough work anymore.

Uh, mostly because of them cancelling shows. Cancelling shows every two years.

Courtney: Well, all they're trying to do is get more subscribers. And so they really don't care about the longevity of a show. And they don't care that, like, there's only six episodes instead of twenty three episodes. And that it lasts two years instead of, like, fifteen, twenty years.

You know, used to, and they don't need the syndication because it's streaming nonstop somewhere. So like all of these avenues for us to make money, where we used to make money from the number of episodes in the season, we used to make money from the longevity of the seasons going on for years and years.

We used to make money from it going into syndication. Um, we used to make money for going over to cable, for it going [00:17:00] to foreign use. Like, and now with streaming, all of those residual outlets are gone. And on top of that, streaming residuals pay nothing. So it's just like, yeah, it, I am fortunate that I'm on a network TV show and I have primetime network residuals and I'm lucky to have a recurring character because my character was not supposed to be recurring.

My character was supposed to be one episode one day, and then I wouldn't be able to audition for another. Uh, Chicago show in that same universe for another two years. So I would have worked one day, and then for two years I wouldn't even get to audition for another show in that universe. So luckily my role became recurring, and luckily I've been on a lot of episodes and I do get good residuals from it because it's network TV, but my streaming residuals are nothing.

I mean, I posted the other day, they're like zero dollars and zero cents for online streaming, internet. It's [00:18:00] like nothing,

Bex: even though that's more eyes. On it on the project than maybe TV it's so they're reaching a wider market meaning They're they're making more money by not paying anything and getting more views 

Courtney: Yeah, they've saved so much money from not paying streaming residuals over the last 10 years They have saved so much money off of exploiting us 

Bex: Wow This is so heinous and this is why we strike and can you go more into more detail of what?

particular points we are trying to negotiate and get to a conclusion on, and this strike. 

Courtney: Yeah. So there's four main ones that I want to talk about. Plus one that is like more of, um, 23 locals outside of New York and L. A. like New York and L. A. really don't feel this one, but we, we still have it in there.

And thankfully we asked them to keep it in and they kept it in cause. Um, I think the room was very much like, let's help the minority people, whether, uh, they're like stunts in background or [00:19:00] they're, you know, from the 23 locals outside of New York and LA. So the, the main ones that everybody is. It basically just talks about a University of California A, B, and C campus, and it gets a and we just, we asked that we could keep up with inflation.

And they won't keep up with inflation. So we asked for 11% and they, they offered, I think, 5%. And so what that means is if we get that 5% instead of the 11%, then I'll actually, in effect with inflation, be making less than I did in 2020. Wow. In 2024. So, um, they just, yeah, they won't even entertain keeping up with inflation.

And then the residuals streaming, um, that we were asking for a revenue share so that we can actually make a living again off of [00:20:00] residuals and actually, like, get a piece of the pie of the success that they're having in streaming. Um, and like I said, if they're successful, we're successful. So it's not like.

Yeah. We're going to take this money no matter what, if you're not successful, we're, we're not taking that much money. Right. Um. And so what they did, another thing with the disrespect, they totally lied about that. We want to use this analytic company that keeps track of eyeballs, right? And they were like, well, we don't really use that.

And we called the company and they were like, oh, they absolutely use us for that. Wow. They straight up lied. They're blatantly lying. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Not to mention they lied, but we both agreed for a media blackout where we wouldn't talk about it, and they just kept leaking shit to the press.

Every day there was like a new leak to the press from the ANPTP. We're like, well, you know, if you're not going to agree to this, and now that we're on strike, we can talk about it. But like [00:21:00] we were adhering to the media blackout and here they were leaking every single thing to the, but they leaked. Um, they wanted a mediator from the government to come in and they leaked it to the press before they even asked us.

The third thing that we are asking for is like, I was talking about the self tape boundaries. Hey, can we have less than 12 pages for our first audition? 12 pages is a lot, you guys. Can we, um, can we have weekends and holidays to not work? Can you make it to, you know, give us a reasonable amount of time to do our audition and do it well?

And hey, can you give us information about the show that we're auditioning for? Can we know genre? Can we know character? Can we know anything? And they're like, oh, I would, it's NDA, blah, blah, blah. It's like, in order for us to have a good audition for you, we need to know what we're auditioning for. A period audition is going to be way different than a dragons and wizards audition.

[00:22:00] Like, come on. And then we're fighting for the survival of our industry, quite literally, with... AI protections, they really want to be able to have full use of AI without any consent or compensation. And it's like, Hey, we know you're going to use AI. We know you're going to use it. New technologies come and we're happy for you to use them.

We want to have consent and compensation. We want to have protections around it. And they really want like carte blanche, like. They want to be able to do anything and everything and not pay us and not, like, I'm sorry, I'm not going to just give you my image and for you to say, Hey, I know this scene was you as a barista in a coffee shop and now I'm going to give you a sex scene without asking you and with this other lead character.

It's like, no, you can't do that. Mm hmm. And the technology exists today. They, actors in the room were talking about how, oh, yeah, my body has been scanned. Oh, yeah, I showed up on set and they're like, okay, today we're gonna scan your body. They already have scans of [00:23:00] actors, especially background actors who get just the short end of the stick all the time.

I mean, background actors get such disrespect from the studios. We're all human, you guys. Come on. Like, it's awful.

Bex: So my understanding is, with the, the body scanning and AI, a background actor can come in, work one day, get paid less than 300, get paid, 

Courtney: get paid for a half a day for which background is like nothing. Background actors get like minimum wage. I feel, um, 

Bex: then they get to use their likeness and image in perpetuity. For the rest of their lives, never have to pay them another cent, have no, uh, accountability to what they use their image or bodies, if it ruins their life or livelihood after that. 

Courtney: Well, it will ruin their livelihood for sure.

And what you don't think about is the domino effect of, okay, that background actor is not getting fed by catering, that background actor is not getting clothed by costumes. That background actor is [00:24:00] not, um, being shuttled around by Transpo. It affects more than the background actor's job. It affects a lot of other people's jobs besides the background actor.

Bex: Wow. So it ripples out. And I think a lot of people to think that, oh, this is just an entertainment industry issue. Oh, no, really what my understanding is of what we're fighting for here is like, yeah, that's just right now. But technology is going to get better. And kind of like that black mirror episode we were talking about, of like, if you think it ends with actors.

No, pretty soon it's going to be coming for everybody's likeness and image that aren't actors and getting this consent of like, Oh, this is where it starts. We're setting the precedent for the rest of humanity here of what AI can and can't do. 

Courtney: We're recording right now on Zoom and Zoom has just been in the news for like training AI with.

People's private meetings, like our meeting right now [00:25:00] could be used without our consent and like, I don't want to use zoom, but right now I don't have anything set up for our meeting to record, but it's like, yeah, it's not just us. It's not just actors and what we really need is federal legislation because the studios aren't going to give us this protection.

And. You know, big companies are not going to give people protection, like they're going to want to use technology to get rid of paying any worker. I mean, we saw it with, um, we saw it first in the grocery stores, right? With the checkouts. Cashiers were replaced by computers. It's a global issue. Um, and the whole thing with like CEO pay versus the lowest workers pay has grown exponentially.

I mean, I can't remember the exact numbers, but I think it, it used to be like a CEO made 30 times more than their lowest employee. And then now it [00:26:00] is 400 times more or upwards, you know, not counting bonuses. Um, So, the wage gap and AI are, are not just an entertainment industry issue, and that's why you see all of these people striking.

I mean, we're, we're calling it hot labor summer. I was just today at a Starbucks downtown Chicago supporting them while they tried to form a union. They're, they have a vote soon. And management is using scaring tactics. Management is like telling them lies about how bad a union is. And we saw that with Amazon and Amazon workers did not, they voted no, right?

Cause they got scared. And, and these companies like Amazon are paying so much money to do union busting. They're paying so much money for consultants to come in and tell these people how bad a union is, or they're going to lose their jobs if they, they vote for a union. And instead of just paying their.

Fucking workers, a living wage. I just, [00:27:00] I mean, I know it's cause they make more money doing that, but it's like, don't you have any empathy? Don't you want people to be able to buy your products? Don't you want like there to be less crime in the places you live and work? Like if people are taken care of, if people are fed and housed and.

There's going to be less reason for people to commit a crime, like, it benefits all of us for people to have health care, for people to have a living wage, for people to have security. Yeah, 

Bex: the CEO doesn't need another yacht, or like another vacation house in Aspen, like you can give up one of your five vacation houses, people can have health insurance, or you know, just put food on the table in a lot of ways, but it's so, or not 

Courtney: have three jobs to be able to pay their rent. Yeah, 

Bex: Yeah. It's truly, it's really not the work that they did. It's, you know, it's just [00:28:00] very disheartening, but it is a ripple that we are feeling in society very strongly. It's not just in our union. I mean, I was talking with my cousin in South Korea right now. The teachers are on strike and so a bunch of the teachers went on strike saying like we are not being treated fairly.

Courtney: Not just here, but 

Bex: all of society, the workers, mostly the blue collars are fed up post pandemic of just taking the brunt and doubling our work. Yes. For no extra pay or compensation while the rich get richer and then our, our middle class shrinks more and more and more. And it's, it's resounding, but it's important for all of us to, even in our union, in our corner of the world to just be like, this is what we can do.

We have to stand up in solidarity with other unions, things like that. So court for you, like. What do you think, for someone who is in SAG, but maybe not [00:29:00] an elected official, or someone who is just an ally of unions, um, what can we do on a daily basis to support this movement? 

Courtney: Well, I would say, like, if you see a post, you can re share it.

Or if you can have a conversation with someone, if you have extra money lying around and you can donate to the entertainment community fund, um, and if you are suffering as a person in the entertainment community and you need help to, to eat food or pay your bills, like please reach out to the entertainment community fund and they have, they have money to give.

I mean, celebrities are donating millions of dollars right now to. Um, to that fund to help people like us, the rank and file members or the crew who's not on strike right now and but doesn't have a choice and they can't go back to work as well, um, to help those people be able to put. Food on their table for their families.

So, those things come out. You don't have to [00:30:00] be a member to come out to a picket line or to a rally or to an event. And, I just like the love and support we're getting from all these other unions as well. Um, I, I am trying to pay that forward and would love to see more members paying that forward of like, hey, go out to that Starbucks event or go, you know, if UPS ended up going on strike, like go pick it with them or the teacher's union when they're on strike, go pick it with them.

Um, we, we went to a hospital, uh, some, some healthcare workers were picketing outside of the hotel for staffing and, um, some SAG AFTRA members went and represented. So just to see this like, uh, solidarity and, and unity between all the different unions. Um, you know, we were all showing up to the WGA events before we actually went on strike.

And now we're in it together. You know, um, but I also just, I also want to say, like, as you [00:31:00] mentioned, I'm super involved with SAG AFTRA and the union and I go to meetings and, um, lead meetings and things like that. And I, I wish that we had this solidarity and this unity, and I wish that we had this kind of involvement, even when there's not a strike.

And I know people are busy, but like, hey, before it, before a strike even happens, there's these meetings called W& Ws. It's called Wages and Working Conditions, where we go talk about like our gripes about the contract and what we want to see changed or what we want to keep in. And then the, um, We bring all from all 25 locals, all of them together, and we see what's the most important and what we're going to bring to the negotiating table.

It's really important that you show up to those meetings. And it's really important that you show up to, um, you know, even just the meetings that aren't as important because we want to see the [00:32:00] solidarity. We want to see this like union activism. Um, even when we're not on strike. 

Bex: Beautiful. That's a good point, Court.

Like, showing up more 

consistently throughout, showing up for others, uh, other unions. Yes, 

Courtney: and I think like, people think like, oh, the union did this or the union did that, but you are the union. Our staff is part of the union. Yes, they're so important and you know, worth every penny we pay them. The, the lawyers often get poached to go work for the AMPTP.

So we got to treat our lawyers with respect and pay them. And like, and also you actually are the union. I love it. Oh, it's beautiful. 

Bex: On top of all this, feeling all this, experiencing all this, you're on the front lines court of this. Do you still have hope? Where are you at right now?

Courtney: Oh, I [00:33:00] tried, you know, you know me, I'm a pretty optimistic, hopeful person. And also I feel. Um, like, disheartened by being in that room and seeing the expressions on their faces, hearing the words that Carol, the chief negotiator, used to describe us going on strike, uh, you know, it's like, I can't remember exactly what she said, but we were like, it's actually our, like, human right and duty, like, when you're being this disrespected and, um, this exploited.

We just have to, we have to go on strike and it's actually our right and, um, for you to say otherwise is union busting, it is disrespectful, it's, I mean, yeah, I, I, I did feel a little disheartened and a little [00:34:00] lower leaving that room and also, um, I know with their leaks in the press, Um, I know that they are not a unified group, and we are, and I know that we, we have never been this unified.

I mean, you know, there's like some infighting in the, within the union, and people argue and disagree. That negotiating room of just, uh, like a SAG AFTRA members, I've never seen people work together in a, in a union meeting so well and that gives me hope. And I know that the AMPTP is divided and they're not agreeing.

I don't know who it is exactly, but if I had to guess, I would say the, the people who are making money outside of, [00:35:00] Entertainment. So like, a company like Amazon whose, whose content budget is 1% of their whole budget, they don't need us. They don't need to come back to the table. Whereas someone who their whole thing is entertainment, they probably want to come back to the table, you know?

And I think you mentioned, um, before we got on here, a rumor about. Netflix, and I'm not sure that it is Netflix because, well, number one, Netflix is only entertainment, right? And number two, we, we actually made a deal. We made a Netflix deal before they joined the AMPTP, and they gave us things that we, I mean, they gave us expanded background, which we have been asking for, for years and years and years and years.

They gave us, um. They made deals about exclusivity that we wanted, like they made some really good deals and were really [00:36:00] supportive. And we actually went into the, um, went into the negotiations with the A and P T P saying we wanna match Netflix for Netflix. Anything that Netflix gave us or we like, gave Netflix, like, we wanna do that exact same deal.

So I don't necessarily think that it is Netflix who is. Keeping us back. I could be wrong. Right. But yeah, there Because we don't hear, we don't hear from individual companies. We hear from Carol, the negotiator, who gets paid 3 million, and she says, you know, whatever she thinks that they want.

Bex: So let's say, like, we just can't get it to, like, on the same page.

Is there a point where we get the government involved? Like, is there any way we could... It's like they're lying. Where's the accountability here on their end, their integrity? Uh, who keeps them accountable? 

Courtney: Yeah, [00:37:00] good question. I don't know. Um, I think that's the problem with our... Society right now is that nobody keeps rich people accountable.

Rich people get away with a lot of shit. And it, uh, you know, I was saying to my husband Scott today, I was like, we, the main thing out of all of these issues, whether it's gun control, abortion, um, union busting, like we need to get money out of politics. Because. It's, it's the greed and corruption of, you know, people being paid by corporations, people being paid millions of dollars by corporations and then they represent corporations instead of the American people, and that is what's wrong.

With every issue that we're having is that corporations are now people. 

Bex: Yes, and have more rights than people. [00:38:00] Have more rights than people. 

Courtney:Yeah, it's pretty awful and The Supreme Court is Corrupted by people giving money to the Supreme Court for what they want for companies Giving money to the Supreme Court.

It's like you can't have that. You cannot have people who are being bought do right by our, by the American people. And it's this 

Bex: massive gaslighting that's like, Oh, but this is a democracy. This is for you. They're pushing it. When, when you break it down, it's like, this has nothing to do with us. You're not doing anything for us.

And the same for the AMPTP, it's like you're not, you're gaslighting us into thinking like we're crazy for asking for a living wage that you've made billions off of us and our work. And it's just like, but we're crazy. Right. So like, ask for that. Right. If the gaslighting is what is like so hard to sometimes cut through the noise, especially when these voices have so much money [00:39:00] that they can.

Create the illusion that they're bigger than they are, and that's what a union does in my understanding is like it really grounds us on to being like, no, we have the numbers. We do. We have the power and it's it is and not in their best interest. If we actually know that and believe that, you know, so it, and that's what you're saying.

Courtney: So they want us to believe that we do not have the power. So why 

Bex: try? Just give up. Don't go strike, you know, find another job. We're going to make you homeless. Exactly. They're trying to, to gaslight us into thinking like, actually we're not, we don't have them backed into a corner here. And I see that more than ever on, you know, the line striking it's.

The hope that I have that humanity has it right is on that line, the kindness, the generosity, the smiles, the dedication, the artists that are there supporting other artists. Oh, what are the side conversations? What are you doing? Oh, here's this and passing of information to help one another, to care for one another is [00:40:00] so there.

And so let's not lose focus of that, of like, that is here, we are very much still in power, still have, you know, the presence and the, our, our priorities straight. It's that select 1% that is making us believe or trying to make us believe that we don't have a say, and that couldn't be farther from reality.

Courtney: True. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thanks.

Bex: Cour, Thanks for dispelling a lot of myths for us. And for, and for your work too, as an elected official leading the charge for all of us that is so important and you haven't been doing it just in the strike. You've been doing it, like you said, all along to all these things.

So if you're a member or friends of, uh, of the union, we'd love to see you on the picket line, post things, share things, um, uplift other voices. Let's 

Courtney: stay strong. Yes. Absolutely. Union strong. People before profits. Power to the people. Right. Love you, Court. Love you too. [00:41:00] Thank you for interviewing me. 

Bex: Yeah.

Thanks for having me. And hopefully this will end soon, but if not, maybe we do another one of these to update everyone kind of what's going on. 

Courtney: Anytime. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Whole Artist. This podcast was produced under the SAG AFTRA Micro Pod Agreement. If you are a member of SAG AFTRA and you have a podcast, get that podcast under a contract.

Protect yourself. And hey, we have a Patreon page this season. Go to patreon.com/whole artist pod there. You can support the podcast. You can get monthly group chats and monthly coaching. Right now. This is a soft launch, so everything is subject to change, but we wanted to put it out there if you wanted to go check it out today.

Special thanks to guest host Bex Marsh for leading the charge on this episode. This episode was edited by myself, Courtney Rue, and co produced by Bex Marsh and Courtney Rue. Special thanks to Mandy Wetzel for all your help on the episode, and to Dana Black and Tania Richard for your fellow podcaster support group that we have created/unofficially started. [00:42:00] And thank you, listener, for subscribing, sharing, leaving a review. As always, I hope you were inspired, I hope you learned something, and I hope you feel better than you did before you listened. Talk soon! Be your best you.